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	<title>Comments on: Did Jesus Drink Alcohol?</title>
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	<link>http://www.fallibleblogma.com/index.php/did-jesus-drink-alcohol/</link>
	<description>A Catholic blog in pursuit of the true, the good and the beautiful</description>
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		<title>By: Matthew Warner</title>
		<link>http://www.fallibleblogma.com/index.php/did-jesus-drink-alcohol/comment-page-1/#comment-27589</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Warner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 15:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Kevin - that is perhaps the most convincing point of all!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin &#8211; that is perhaps the most convincing point of all!</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.fallibleblogma.com/index.php/did-jesus-drink-alcohol/comment-page-1/#comment-27576</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jul 2010 09:45:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>A bunch of fisherman sitting around and drinking &quot;grape juice&quot; 2,000 years ago?  Yeah, right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A bunch of fisherman sitting around and drinking &#8220;grape juice&#8221; 2,000 years ago?  Yeah, right.</p>
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		<title>By: sam</title>
		<link>http://www.fallibleblogma.com/index.php/did-jesus-drink-alcohol/comment-page-1/#comment-27276</link>
		<dc:creator>sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jul 2010 12:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=495#comment-27276</guid>
		<description>Nick said: &quot;It requires the external squashing of the grape to obtain the fresh juice which then, over time, will attract yeast cells, whose purpose is to decompose the grape, and eventually ferment.&quot;

Yeasts are naturally present on the grapes, there is no need to attract them(Of course, in modern time we are able to separate strains and use the ones that produce the most desired characteristics.)  Fermentation is a type of decomposition and so when you say &quot;and eventually ferment&quot; it has already been fermenting.  If the grape were already decomposed by other microorganisms, such as bacteria, then there would be no sugars left for the yeasts to ferment.

I would also like to see some links on the methods of preservation that you offered.  I do not believe boiling would be a very good method.  It would kill any microorganisms already present, but there are still sugars which would then, in this case, attract yeasts or bacteria unless it were sealed in a sanitized, air-tight container.  I would also love to learn a method of filtration that could have been in practice at that time that could help me remove yeasts and bacteria from juice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick said: &#8220;It requires the external squashing of the grape to obtain the fresh juice which then, over time, will attract yeast cells, whose purpose is to decompose the grape, and eventually ferment.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yeasts are naturally present on the grapes, there is no need to attract them(Of course, in modern time we are able to separate strains and use the ones that produce the most desired characteristics.)  Fermentation is a type of decomposition and so when you say &#8220;and eventually ferment&#8221; it has already been fermenting.  If the grape were already decomposed by other microorganisms, such as bacteria, then there would be no sugars left for the yeasts to ferment.</p>
<p>I would also like to see some links on the methods of preservation that you offered.  I do not believe boiling would be a very good method.  It would kill any microorganisms already present, but there are still sugars which would then, in this case, attract yeasts or bacteria unless it were sealed in a sanitized, air-tight container.  I would also love to learn a method of filtration that could have been in practice at that time that could help me remove yeasts and bacteria from juice.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Warner</title>
		<link>http://www.fallibleblogma.com/index.php/did-jesus-drink-alcohol/comment-page-1/#comment-25256</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Warner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jun 2010 20:15:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=495#comment-25256</guid>
		<description>Nick, if you can provide links to documentation on the 4 ways to preserve grape juice, I&#039;d really appreciate it. Thanks!

And of course Jesus could have turned water into grape juice...he can do what he likes. But scripture says it was wine...not grape juice. And everywhere else it refers to it, in the context and use of the time, it is understood to be alcoholic wine - not un-fermented grape juice. There are plenty of reasons it is very implausible that Jesus did not drink alcoholic wine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick, if you can provide links to documentation on the 4 ways to preserve grape juice, I&#8217;d really appreciate it. Thanks!</p>
<p>And of course Jesus could have turned water into grape juice&#8230;he can do what he likes. But scripture says it was wine&#8230;not grape juice. And everywhere else it refers to it, in the context and use of the time, it is understood to be alcoholic wine &#8211; not un-fermented grape juice. There are plenty of reasons it is very implausible that Jesus did not drink alcoholic wine.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://www.fallibleblogma.com/index.php/did-jesus-drink-alcohol/comment-page-1/#comment-23545</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 May 2010 00:54:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=495#comment-23545</guid>
		<description>As to adiutricem&#039;s comment, It is not impossible that Jesus turned the water to grape juice. We find in John 5:19 Jesus saying,&quot;Then answered Jesus and said unto them,&quot; Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.&quot; We find in nature the grape on the vine; if the skin of the grape is not perforated, the grape will simply shrivel up and turn into a raisin. It requires the external squashing of the grape to obtain the fresh juice which then, over time, will attract yeast cells, whose purpose is to decompose the grape, and eventually ferment. It is neither silly nor completely unlikely that Jesus turned water into grape juice. If further inquiry should be compiled in relation to this comment, I will be happy to share more information about this subject.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As to adiutricem&#8217;s comment, It is not impossible that Jesus turned the water to grape juice. We find in John 5:19 Jesus saying,&#8221;Then answered Jesus and said unto them,&#8221; Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.&#8221; We find in nature the grape on the vine; if the skin of the grape is not perforated, the grape will simply shrivel up and turn into a raisin. It requires the external squashing of the grape to obtain the fresh juice which then, over time, will attract yeast cells, whose purpose is to decompose the grape, and eventually ferment. It is neither silly nor completely unlikely that Jesus turned water into grape juice. If further inquiry should be compiled in relation to this comment, I will be happy to share more information about this subject.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://www.fallibleblogma.com/index.php/did-jesus-drink-alcohol/comment-page-1/#comment-23544</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 May 2010 00:39:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=495#comment-23544</guid>
		<description>I feel it is important to note that there were as many as 4 ways to preserve grape juice during the time of Jesus. These way were: Fumigation, filtration, sublimation, and boiling. Before anyone says I&#039;m incorrect, I encourage you to do some research first. If I must, I will return with a rebuttal to any objections to this fact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel it is important to note that there were as many as 4 ways to preserve grape juice during the time of Jesus. These way were: Fumigation, filtration, sublimation, and boiling. Before anyone says I&#8217;m incorrect, I encourage you to do some research first. If I must, I will return with a rebuttal to any objections to this fact.</p>
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		<title>By: Catholic debating pro-life</title>
		<link>http://www.fallibleblogma.com/index.php/did-jesus-drink-alcohol/comment-page-1/#comment-21238</link>
		<dc:creator>Catholic debating pro-life</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Apr 2010 00:26:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=495#comment-21238</guid>
		<description>Actually, that&#039;s a an altered, shortened, and overall rather distorted quote. The actual quote, which is actually a pretty good theological point, is that when people question why water is no longer turned into wine like Jesus did at Cana, he points out that God does indeed send down water, which is in turn &quot;drunk&quot; by the plants, like grapes. The grapes are then turned into wine, which is proof that God loves us and wants to see us happy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, that&#8217;s a an altered, shortened, and overall rather distorted quote. The actual quote, which is actually a pretty good theological point, is that when people question why water is no longer turned into wine like Jesus did at Cana, he points out that God does indeed send down water, which is in turn &#8220;drunk&#8221; by the plants, like grapes. The grapes are then turned into wine, which is proof that God loves us and wants to see us happy.</p>
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		<title>By: Roseanne Sullivan</title>
		<link>http://www.fallibleblogma.com/index.php/did-jesus-drink-alcohol/comment-page-1/#comment-14522</link>
		<dc:creator>Roseanne Sullivan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Dec 2009 05:26:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=495#comment-14522</guid>
		<description>I was a member of an Evangelical Free Church for a time after I regained my faith in Christ, but before I returned to the Catholic Church, and I remember the pastor saying with a straight face that the word for wine actually meant raisin paste.

My Methodist minister brother in law taught at a Methodist college and would go out of town to buy wine so the locals wouldn&#039;t catch him in the act.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was a member of an Evangelical Free Church for a time after I regained my faith in Christ, but before I returned to the Catholic Church, and I remember the pastor saying with a straight face that the word for wine actually meant raisin paste.</p>
<p>My Methodist minister brother in law taught at a Methodist college and would go out of town to buy wine so the locals wouldn&#8217;t catch him in the act.</p>
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		<title>By: Poll: Is underage drinking a sin?</title>
		<link>http://www.fallibleblogma.com/index.php/did-jesus-drink-alcohol/comment-page-1/#comment-11726</link>
		<dc:creator>Poll: Is underage drinking a sin?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:11:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=495#comment-11726</guid>
		<description>[...] And if you&#8217;d like to know if Jesus drank alcohol&#8230;go here. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] And if you&#8217;d like to know if Jesus drank alcohol&#8230;go here. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.fallibleblogma.com/index.php/did-jesus-drink-alcohol/comment-page-1/#comment-10835</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 22:54:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=495#comment-10835</guid>
		<description>Kim,  
Alcohol in moderation is healthy:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/alcohol/SC00024
&quot;Moderate alcohol consumption may provide some health benefits. It may:
    * Reduce your risk of developing heart disease, peripheral vascular disease and intermittent claudication
    * Reduce your risk of dying of a heart attack
    * Possibly reduce your risk of strokes, particularly ischemic strokes
    * Lower your risk of gallstones
    * Possibly reduce your risk of diabetes&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kim,<br />
Alcohol in moderation is healthy:<br />
<a href="http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/alcohol/SC00024" rel="nofollow">http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/alcohol/SC00024</a><br />
&#8220;Moderate alcohol consumption may provide some health benefits. It may:<br />
    * Reduce your risk of developing heart disease, peripheral vascular disease and intermittent claudication<br />
    * Reduce your risk of dying of a heart attack<br />
    * Possibly reduce your risk of strokes, particularly ischemic strokes<br />
    * Lower your risk of gallstones<br />
    * Possibly reduce your risk of diabetes&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Samuel Ferraro</title>
		<link>http://www.fallibleblogma.com/index.php/did-jesus-drink-alcohol/comment-page-1/#comment-9971</link>
		<dc:creator>Samuel Ferraro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Sep 2009 16:39:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=495#comment-9971</guid>
		<description>Drunkenness where a person says and does things that he or she would normally not is in most circumstances a mortal sin, and for some people, this can result from one or two drinks, so this is really a highly individual matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Drunkenness where a person says and does things that he or she would normally not is in most circumstances a mortal sin, and for some people, this can result from one or two drinks, so this is really a highly individual matter.</p>
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		<title>By: St. Bellarmine's Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.fallibleblogma.com/index.php/did-jesus-drink-alcohol/comment-page-1/#comment-7467</link>
		<dc:creator>St. Bellarmine's Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 15:33:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=495#comment-7467</guid>
		<description>Here is what the good St. Bellarmine said about getting drunk.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://saintrobertbellarmine.blogspot.com/2008/03/saint-robert-bellarmine-calling.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Saint Robert Bellarmine Calling Drunkards To Repentance!
&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is what the good St. Bellarmine said about getting drunk.</p>
<p><a href="http://saintrobertbellarmine.blogspot.com/2008/03/saint-robert-bellarmine-calling.html" rel="nofollow">Saint Robert Bellarmine Calling Drunkards To Repentance!<br />
</a></p>
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		<title>By: Artie</title>
		<link>http://www.fallibleblogma.com/index.php/did-jesus-drink-alcohol/comment-page-1/#comment-6013</link>
		<dc:creator>Artie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:40:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=495#comment-6013</guid>
		<description>Kim can you elaborate on your position a little more?  

I am confused at what point you are trying to make in your previous post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kim can you elaborate on your position a little more?  </p>
<p>I am confused at what point you are trying to make in your previous post.</p>
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		<title>By: Kim</title>
		<link>http://www.fallibleblogma.com/index.php/did-jesus-drink-alcohol/comment-page-1/#comment-5978</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 00:20:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=495#comment-5978</guid>
		<description>Omg ... As I Have Learned Alcohol is dangerous for health and causes death and other bad things and as far as i thing...Apostles would have never taugth us wrong things.. plz do reply..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Omg &#8230; As I Have Learned Alcohol is dangerous for health and causes death and other bad things and as far as i thing&#8230;Apostles would have never taugth us wrong things.. plz do reply..</p>
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		<title>By: George Caleb Oguta</title>
		<link>http://www.fallibleblogma.com/index.php/did-jesus-drink-alcohol/comment-page-1/#comment-1841</link>
		<dc:creator>George Caleb Oguta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 12:13:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=495#comment-1841</guid>
		<description>Iam supporting your teachings
They are true
Ineed more teachings for the passover
George
+254710660301</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Iam supporting your teachings<br />
They are true<br />
Ineed more teachings for the passover<br />
George<br />
+254710660301</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://www.fallibleblogma.com/index.php/did-jesus-drink-alcohol/comment-page-1/#comment-1676</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 02:57:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fallibleblogma.com/?p=495#comment-1676</guid>
		<description>I was raised Protestant and became a Catholic just a few years ago. I love this examination and explanation of drinking as it would be viewed from a Biblical perspective from Christ&#039;s own life and time.  I find it interesting also that he would choose to come to earth during a time when this would be recorded as normal.  At other times, it would not have been.  I think this clears up a lot of left over protestant wonderings and will be the basis of future conversations with believers who feel as though I have backslidden because of my choice to drink from time to time.  Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was raised Protestant and became a Catholic just a few years ago. I love this examination and explanation of drinking as it would be viewed from a Biblical perspective from Christ&#8217;s own life and time.  I find it interesting also that he would choose to come to earth during a time when this would be recorded as normal.  At other times, it would not have been.  I think this clears up a lot of left over protestant wonderings and will be the basis of future conversations with believers who feel as though I have backslidden because of my choice to drink from time to time.  Thank you.</p>
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